maeve66 | mini rant on xianity

Yeah, I think I'm doing that "X" thing to be rude... sorry, to any who are Christians who might read this. It's just that this particular religion's loudest proselytizers piss me off so much. Even fluffy confusing Christians who are famous guitarists -- that would be "Edge" from U2, also Bono -- come up with these wacky quotes that want to be all politically radical and revolutionary, but then invoke the notion of the Saved and the Rest.

I don't mind admitting that many of the central tenets of the historical Jesus were radical in their time, and still are, and can legitimately be part of politically liberatory arguments. But that's true of lots -- maybe even all religions. Humans are basically capable of great compassion and empathy; I believe that, so it is only sensible that human religions should aspire to that human capacity. Islam has some excellent core beliefs and principles; so do Buddhism and some of Hinduism, and Judaism, ad infinitem.

What pisses me off about Christianity is that it rigorously excludes any Truth but its own, and mentally condemns those who are not Christians. I don't know if Islam is quite the same in that. Historically, I think that many Islamic states were fairly tolerant of other religions, or at least those "of the book". But this exclusion/condemnation thing*... it pretty much eviscerates all the nice claims for me.

Anyway, the quote that kneejerked this tirade out of me is the following:

"I really believe Christ is like a sword that divides the world, and it's time we get into line and let people know where we stand. You know, to much of the world, even the mention of the name Jesus Christ is like someone scratching their nails across a chalkboard." -- The Edge (CCM Magazine, August 1982)

My kneejerk reaction was set off by the notion of drawing a fucking line in the sand with a sword, Christians on one side and presumably everyone else on the other. I am sure that that guitarist meant that the politically radical, tolerant, COMPASSIONATE, Christ-like Christians would be on one side, not the intolerant, rigid, condemning ones. But it doesn't play like that in today's religious/political rhetoric. And anyway, it doesn't matter, because on the other side of the identify-as-Christian line is all the rest of the non-Christian world. Then I looked at the date, and am slightly less pissed off, because at least when he said it, fundamentalism was just beginning its long climb to the political top, it wasn't already enthroned. Even so.

As a result of the current politics, sometimes even the name of Jesus Christ is like someone scratching their nails across a chalkboard. For me.

As an atheist, it's fair to ask, "why should I care?" Only because of the current political and cultural weather. I love many people who are Christians or Jews, and I've loved a few people who are Buddhists or Hindus. I don't think I've known any people of other religious persuasions, except Pagans, I guess. Anyway, /end rant.

*as I say, of any stripe, not just Xtian -- just, in the West, these days, the loudest fundamentalists are the Xtians, and it's the culture I grew up surrounded by, so the majority of my ire goes there.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't know many, either, and those whom I do know are wonderful people who have nothing that I can perceive in common with fundamentalists or any of the stuff I critique above. But the general culture in the US is kind of permeated by that unstated (or very loudly stated) historical culture. I am, myself. My parents may have been out and out atheists, and my grandparents kind of functional atheists (I don't think any of them believed in god, though in their younger days they went to various denominations of Protestant church). But my great grandparents were either Catholic or Protestant, and you can't be in this country without learning some of the basics of Judeo-Christian history, ethics, language, and metaphor. I know far less about Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, or other world religions, even though I've actually studied Buddhism and Hinduism, in college.

Your views sound refreshingly materialist; I like that, though I understand people for whom spirituality is important.

You can't live in this country either without learning those 'basics'. But wtf is Judaeo-Christian culture? I presume it refers to the Old Testament and a particular part of the Middle East - which are also part of Islamic culture (e.g Abraham). The whole point about Jesus was that he was supposed to make a radical break from Judaism. There was a time when people in the west spoke more about Semitic culture, from which christianity was quite distinct (all those medieval paintings that made JC look distinctly non-semitic). I was in Naples last year. It is a city with a history of over 2,500 years. In the land of the Catholic Pope, there is magic and superstition in Naples that has nothing at all to do with Judaeo-Christianity. What is Judaeo-Christian about Filipino Catholicism or Mexican for that matter? In short I think the whole definition of J-Xity is one of those historical legends that has been developed ex-post to explain and justify what is essentially a preposterous belief system.

Ok. While I'm offending your friends, let's ask what is this 'spirituality' that people seem to need. Religion and magic both come from historically existing cultures in which people tried to understand something they didn't understand (and we still don't understand). So humans invented gods etc and 'intelligent design' so that there was something to which they could refer in order to answer the Big Questions (why are we here? where do we fit into the scheme of things? and, most importantly, from where do we get our intelligence, that which enables us to plan, design, manufacture, etc that other animals do not have?). Most religions (maybe all?), on account of the last question, place humans in a special relation with god and the cosmos. The point being that humans are definitely not some random genetic mutation.

The term 'spirituality' in modern usage seems to refer to some special quality of communing with god, the universe or whatever. For which you apparently require some kind of religion or other. I find this totally offensive. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean that I cannot stand under the stars and experience a complete sense of awe, beauty and incomprehensibility. Why do I have to lay my house out according to the laws of Feng Shui (magic) in order to have a sense of being a part of this enormous universe? Of course there are things humans cannot control - our brains are too finite and stupid. Why should that bother us? Why can't we just get on with doing what we can do - trying to make our society better.

Further, I think that 'spirituality' in the modern world (America, Australia, etc) is a manifestation of the extreme individualism that capitalism has driven us to - pure selfishness if you like. "I have my saviour and the devil take the rest of you." (saviour being broadly defined to include whatever 'spiritual belief' turns you on). This is especially true in the later manifestations of capitalism - consumerism - in which we a free to choose our own version of 'spirituality' in the same way that we choose a new car. There is no 'community' any longer to tell us what we have to believe on pain of excommunication and/or eternal damnation. This kind of 'spirituality' is therefore anti-community. Although you might find a 'community' of like-minded 'spiritualists', you effectively cut yourself off from people who have a different 'spirituality' - even if (or especially if?) they are the next door neighbour. Instead of being part of a real community (which necessarily squabbles) you have to invoke a creed of 'tolerance' in order to be able to live next door to each other. But you're not sharing each other's world.

In short, one of my missions in life is to try to dissuade people from their 'spirituality'. Mission Impossible! :( Unfortunately, most of them find my views offensive. The argument usually ends up with 'let's agree to disagree' (impossible from my point of view) or 'I don't care what you think, I know'.

You should read a post by my Belfast ex, on Blogspot. I kind of referred him to you, for that matter, in my comment on his post, which predated mine, but independently. I think it's all this stuff about the Danish cartoon coming out. His post is explicitly on that topic, the one below the demonstration one, and I suspect that some of that cartoon stuff is motivating my own frustration, too.

I think your linking of individual spiritualism and consumerism is fascinating, by the way. I sometimes struggle towards those notions, but I am less willing to offend, I think. I really like reading you.

Here's the link:

MacUaid on religion and imperialism

mini rant on xianity

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