mini rant on xianity

[maeve66]

Yeah, I think I'm doing that "X" thing to be rude... sorry, to any who are Christians who might read this. It's just that this particular religion's loudest proselytizers piss me off so much. Even fluffy confusing Christians who are famous guitarists -- that would be "Edge" from U2, also Bono -- come up with these wacky quotes that want to be all politically radical and revolutionary, but then invoke the notion of the Saved and the Rest.

I don't mind admitting that many of the central tenets of the historical Jesus were radical in their time, and still are, and can legitimately be part of politically liberatory arguments. But that's true of lots -- maybe even all religions. Humans are basically capable of great compassion and empathy; I believe that, so it is only sensible that human religions should aspire to that human capacity. Islam has some excellent core beliefs and principles; so do Buddhism and some of Hinduism, and Judaism, ad infinitem.

What pisses me off about Christianity is that it rigorously excludes any Truth but its own, and mentally condemns those who are not Christians. I don't know if Islam is quite the same in that. Historically, I think that many Islamic states were fairly tolerant of other religions, or at least those "of the book". But this exclusion/condemnation thing*... it pretty much eviscerates all the nice claims for me.

Anyway, the quote that kneejerked this tirade out of me is the following:

"I really believe Christ is like a sword that divides the world, and it's time we get into line and let people know where we stand. You know, to much of the world, even the mention of the name Jesus Christ is like someone scratching their nails across a chalkboard." -- The Edge (CCM Magazine, August 1982)

My kneejerk reaction was set off by the notion of drawing a fucking line in the sand with a sword, Christians on one side and presumably everyone else on the other. I am sure that that guitarist meant that the politically radical, tolerant, COMPASSIONATE, Christ-like Christians would be on one side, not the intolerant, rigid, condemning ones. But it doesn't play like that in today's religious/political rhetoric. And anyway, it doesn't matter, because on the other side of the identify-as-Christian line is all the rest of the non-Christian world. Then I looked at the date, and am slightly less pissed off, because at least when he said it, fundamentalism was just beginning its long climb to the political top, it wasn't already enthroned. Even so.

As a result of the current politics, sometimes even the name of Jesus Christ is like someone scratching their nails across a chalkboard. For me.

As an atheist, it's fair to ask, "why should I care?" Only because of the current political and cultural weather. I love many people who are Christians or Jews, and I've loved a few people who are Buddhists or Hindus. I don't think I've known any people of other religious persuasions, except Pagans, I guess. Anyway, /end rant.




*as I say, of any stripe, not just Xtian -- just, in the West, these days, the loudest fundamentalists are the Xtians, and it's the culture I grew up surrounded by, so the majority of my ire goes there.

Comments

[kneidlach.livejournal.com]

I consider myself a socialist, and a probably-communist. I feel that I am not well educated enough about communism to call myself a communist, but that is basically where my politics lie. However, I don't feel that this conflicts with my religious beliefs because I believe that "the opiate of the masses" is not religion in and of itself, it is the patriarchal and self-righteous and violent approach to religion that evolved out of the crusades and beyond. To me, G-d is that which is good and holy and pure within all of us... I see Revolution as a necessary precursor to the "coming of the Messiah" - Because the "Messiah" to me is not a person, it is a time in which all people are able to be in touch with that which is good, holy and pure in themselves and can act accordingly towards others. I think that a revolution that involves the ending of economic injustice would be the only thing that could bring about a time when this much peace and unity could be a possibility. Which is why I find messianic religions that think that some dude is going to show up and make everything better, pretty ridiculous and unrealistic.

[maeve66.livejournal.com]

I agree with every word of that -- my own spirituality is more of an evanescent thing... the closest I ever get is a moment that seems a bit like Emerson's "allseeing eye" transcendentalist thing, a visual moment that takes me out of myself. But that's me. I respect spirituality in lots of forms, because I do believe what I said about human capacity for empathy and compassion.

[angel80.livejournal.com]

humans are human. Maybe they have something 'good, pure and holy' in them, but it's necessarily mixed up with what is not. Real human societies are not and never will be 'good, pure and holy'. To believe in anything else is, to my way of thinking, to believe in magic.

[maeve66.livejournal.com]

But a capacity for empathy and compassion is not the same thing as an inevitable practice of that -- I don't see how that's magic. I don't believe in anything more than a random mutation of genes, and before that a random accumulation of molecules that tended to get more complex, and before that the explosion of some elements in a void. I'm a materialist, myself.

Somehow, though, that (ha, ha -- the song playing now is Eminem -- "Will the Real Slim Shady Please Stand Up?" and just said "we ain't nothing but mammals"... I like coincidence) that doesn't really conflict with my appreciation of the universe as feeling somehow bigger than my own consciousness. I don't need a superior being for that, but I've liked some of the transcendentalist interpretations of that, e.g. the Emerson. It all seems like metaphor to me. Also, I'm often sympathetic to metaphoric magic, which is how I see a lot of the Pagan/Wiccan impulses.

[angel80.livejournal.com]

Empathy and compassion are human characteristics. Purity and holiness are not.

Pagans and Wiccans are consumers too. I used to correspond occasionally on LJ with a travel agent from WA (Western Australia) who was a dedicated pagan about to wear a white dress to church for her wedding (in which her 'bastard' child was also to participate)! You can do that sort of thing in a secular society.

[angel80.livejournal.com]

Metaphor may be OK. If there's any religious impulse involved I just tend to find it annoying. I haven't read Emerson, but I don't think your transcendentalism has anything to do with 'spirituality'. You said it takes you out of yourself. What you mean is that you occasionally experience something different from the everyday. YOU see YOURSELF from a different perspective. Nothing mysterious in it. Human brains are like that. What I can bet on is that your experience is absolutely unique to you, precisely because it comes from YOUR brain and not from the cosmos or god.

[kneidlach.livejournal.com]

I didn't say that humans or societies will be "good, pure and holy" ... I said:

"a time in which all people are able to be in touch with that which is good, holy and pure in themselves"

i.e. people having the optimal circumstances to be in touch with that *part* of themselves.

[angel80.livejournal.com]

I think it's more important to be in touch with other humans.

[kneidlach.livejournal.com]

I said that too, actually.